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What do you think about Cowen's 'Live Chat'?
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ggreen



Joined: 11 Dec 2005
Posts: 52

PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are my questions:

1.) How much money will it take to save the engineering programs?

2.) In the last chat, you were asked to explain the cutting of the engineering programs in "as explicit financial and statistical terms as possible". Your answer included neither financial nor statistical terms of any sort. Please give numbers for the following quantities: (a) the amount of money saved by cutting engineering programs, (b) the annual net financial gain/loss of the engineering school, (c) the annual net financial gain/loss of Tulane college, (d) the anticipated loss of donations from alumni annoyed by this decision.

3.) Since you believe cutting these engineering programs is necessary, SURELY your Blue Ribbon Advisors examined alternatives, including the 13 listed at the bottom of the AAUP Report on Financial Exigency (http://www.aaup.org/statements/REPORTS/Financial.htm). Please give figures for the estimated net change in income as determined by the Blue Ribbon Advisors for those 13 options, and any other alternatives they considered.

4.) Someone in the EECS department posted a message on the EECS website linking to http://www.savetulaneengineering.org/. Without even asking that it be taken down, all access to the website has been blocked. Why do you feel the need to censor us?

5.) You claim that these engineering programs are not "world class". Please explain how a team of non-world-class Tulane engineering students placed 4th in the DARPA Grand Challenge despite disruptions from Hurricane Katrina (http://www.eng.tulane.edu/news/2005_oct14.php).

6.) Tulane engineer A. Baldwin Wood invented the pumps that have kept New Orleans (mostly) dry for 90 years. Wouldn't it be great if Tulane engineers kept New Orleans dry for another 90 years by building new levees?
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jmikowski



Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Posts: 121

PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those are awesome questions. Somehow...I kinda doubt they will be answered. Can someone volunteer to take screen shots of the chat?
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- Justin Mikowski
Computer Engineering '07
"Non sibi Sed Suis" -Not for one's self but for one's people.
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ET097



Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i espically like the idea of reasking questions from last weeks live chat that were never answered.
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wwalkeri



Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 136

PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everyone on the web site and forum should submit those questions. If they are not answered after 60 plus people ask them, it is just one more thing we have to fire back at the administration with.
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ggreen



Joined: 11 Dec 2005
Posts: 52

PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scott's "answers":
1) "The decision with respect ot the Engineering departments being phased out was both strategic and a financial. It is not a question of how much money at this stage would save the school. In fact, we have notified students applying for next year that the school will be changed and therefore the decision has been implemented and applied. implemented and is final."

4.) "The content of material on the school of Engineering website is controlled by the dean of the school of Engineering not central administration. The dean requested that the information be removed from the school of Engineering website."

6.) "Keeping New Orleans dry and safe is an issue of national importance and will require the expertise of engineers throughout America, and the world, to ensure our future."
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Chris



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:15 pm    Post subject: Great job, guys Reply with quote

First, I think you guys are doing an *amazing* job with all of this, and I'm proud to be associated with students who are so active in defending what's important to them.

Second, I just wanted to let you guys know that your questions weren't the only ones being answered...uh...selectively. All of my targeted financial & political questions were also avoided, while my one seemingly innocuous question was answered (the one about graduation. I say seemingly just because it was, in fact, a very important question in gauging what is underneath all of this.

I've been spending a lot of time thinking about the utter disaster that's being made of Tulane's programs, and had a wild thought: Have you considered banding forces with all of the undergrad schools to get an even larger support base? I know there are plenty of Newcomb, B-School, and probably architecture and social work folks who think the whole thing is a travesty, not just their special little corners...

Keep digging at those numbers -- the truth is in there somewhere.
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noxreal



Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Associating the engineering movement with the movements of the other schools may actually be a setback. Although they are suffering cuts here and there, which is truly a shame, a majority of their students are not being asked to leave. The changes incurred by the other schools are debatable at best, given the financial circumstances of the institution. After all, they make the school more efficient and the student body still exists to carry on the traditions of the former Colleges. What is not debatable is the injustice incurred by the engineering departments. The dissolution of these crucial engineering majors under the guise of strategic vision is the epitome of ridiculousness. This violation needs direct redress.

The engineering schools vs. other schools' arguments are essentially different. Yours has to do with coping to change; ours has to do with continued survival. I understand Newcomb/Tulane College students may think that their respective colleges are fighting for survival, but at the end of the day, your students will still be there; ours will not. I wish the other schools the best of luck in dealing with their respective changes but I think the engineers took the hardest hit (and I'm also a bit biased, but seriously, they did) and have a most difficult journey ahead of them.

zbm
bme '07
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wwalkeri



Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 136

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is just an inquiry and a question. By no means am I trying to accuse anyone of anything. However, it appeared as if the person under the name Katie Wave kept asking loaded questions that appeared as an attempt to boost Pres. Cowen's image. Could these questions have been planted by Tulane. You decide.

Here is just one Example:

Katiewave: President Cowen, is the basketball game this weekend really free? Welcome back Green Wave!

or another:

Katiewave: Great job on solving the housing problem. I just found out today that I will be in modular housing. Where will these units be placed?

These questions are loaded. I am from N.O. and no one says great job with housing if you have to live on a ship 5-6miles from school. Furthermore, the Tulane website had free basketball written all over it.
Perhaps this was a real student or perhaps it was someone planted by Tulane. I would really like to know.
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noxreal



Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, what a coincidence! This same girl is all over the tulanestudentinfo.blogspot.com website boasting the administration (and Bretty Hyman's loyalty) for their "great job" and giving the engineers a hard time. She somehow gets off on the fact that she didn't suffer a blow and gains delight at the expense of other's sorrow. Don't mind her; she's proven herself to be a total dunce on the other website. If you like, just go to the website mentioned above and read her comments. They're almost as ridiculous as the injustice we've incurred.


zbm
bme '07
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Chris



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had similar thoughts about katiewave -- who knows, though. We never will... it was galling to see some of that stuff show up on the chat knowing that so many of our questions were deliberately going unanswered, however you slice it.

As for other schools and engineering, I wasn't really thinking of it as a "versus" kind of situation. Perhaps naive of me, but I figure that the more bodies on board with save engineering (and the general structure of the school, perhaps less a handful of administrative functions), the better. I honestly think you'd find support in other corners -- not to say you have to have it, of course. Certainly when the development office came calling today, I gave them an earful about engineering, TC, NC, and just how disgusted I am with the fact that they'd even think of asking for money without telling me that the university's been gutted of the things that made it special. It's all been unraveled in this travesty of a restructuring, and I think nearly all Tulanians think it ought to be put back the way it belongs, which certainly entails the whole engineering enchilada.

BTW, I also told them exactly how much money they wouldn't be getting, and said that it was staying in my pocket unless and until Engineering, TC, and NC were restored. There's no reason why med school, architechture, b-school, TC, and NC students can't all advocate for each other, as far as I can see. United we stand and all that rot...

But no worries -- as I said, just an idea. When I see where the chips fall on Newcomb, I'll be pledging to engineering right alongside helping NC/TC with $ in whatever manner is called for. I'm big on sharing burdens, personally, but independence has its own merits.

(edited for spelling by the author)
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Last edited by Chris on Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ET097



Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Realistically we will have our own independent goals than Newcomb and Tulane College, but that shouldnt stop us from supporting their efforts. Working to save engineering is this groups goal, but we can still give encouragment to other groups with other goals. Thank you for your support Chris and I hope many more Newcomb graduates feel the same way that you do.
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Computer Engineering '06
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mollyzogirl



Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Posts: 93
Location: New Orleans

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:53 pm    Post subject: Newcomb and development calls Reply with quote

I agree that we should stand together with Newcomb and do what we can for them also. The problem I have is that most of my Newcomb friends seem to have already given it up as a lost cause. They're very saddened by it, but they dont think anything they do will make any difference. I suppose that is where we differ from them.

On another note, I noticed you mentioned something about development calls. I am a student caller from tulane (and i dont think they have any students calling you now, but if they called asking for donations it is the same office I work for). I just wanted to drop a note to all of the alumni (and students who are future alumni) of how that really works. Basically, when the students are calling, there are about 12 of us sitting in little cubicles, in a room thats about 12X12, with carpeted walls, calling Alumni and BEGGING for $$, and getting paid slightly above minimum wage for doing it. Just remember that if you do have a problem with Tulane (which most of us do now) try not to take it out on them. It really isnt their fault most of the time, and yelling at them or being rude wont solve anything. DEFINITELY tell them your problem, and that you wont donate unless it is handled, because we do put that stuff in the computer, and it does get to the deans of the schools and other upper management. When they wonder why alumni arent giving, they will look at those comments, and hopefully it will strike a nerve, when they see how much $$ they missed out on.

Also, a few other little hints:
If you really dont want to give ever, tell them to put you on the dont call list, because otherwise you will just keep getting called over and over every year, and it is a waste of time and $$ on Tulanes part. They will still send you mailings about it though, so if you want to give eventually, you will have the chance. The other thing is, if you want to stay on the list, but you dont want to give this year, and you dont want to tell them why, just tell them "Im not interested" and hang up. Dont let them go through all 3 asks because 1) it makes us feel bad to beg you 3 times for money we know we arent getting, and 2) it looks better on our stats to have a 'hang up' than a 'refusal', and we still wont call you again for the rest of the year.

I know this probably isnt really the time or place for this, but I've always wanted to get this out of my system, and hopefully If we call any of you next semester (if the calling center is open Question ) you will remember this, and not scream to us about engineering getting cut, because chances are you may be talking to me, and I am as upset as you are!

Thanks! and sorry for blabbing on so long!
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noxreal



Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, just in case anybody got the wrong impression, I support Tulane and Newcomb College's and any other school's efforts to bring back the status quo to Tulane. I was just merely pointing out that the motivations for each respective school may be different, and disguising them as the same, could lead engineering (and maybe, the other colleges) down a detrimental path. Just because one person was pushed, and another stabbed, doesn't mean they can't both support each other. But if they go pleading to the same judge under the guise of the same complaint, the stab-wound victim may not receive the justice he deserves. OK! That's enough analogy. Yay to every school!

zbm
bme '07
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Chris



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great post Molly, and I won't take up a lot of time extending the topic, but I know exactly what you mean.

I was work-study at the development center in 1990 and 1991, back over behind the Willow building in a trailer, actually. I was very, very nice to the person who called, didn't yell, etc. I started by apologizing for having to be negative and explained that I didn't think she was in any way responsible, but that under no circumstances would Tulane see another penny of my or my family's money (we are associate level donors of three generations) unless they put things back where they found them -- specifically TC, NC, and Engineering. She listened to my spiel for a bit, and offered to let me speak to someone who could explain what was going on and why better -- I'm involved for NC on the back end, and didn't need explanations. She also asked if there was anything else she could do to help (she felt great sympathy for all of our causes), and I suggested that they could perhaps keep track of how many alums they spoke with who were not donating this year because of the restructuring. Eventually, those tallies are going to get pretty large. At the end of the call, I thanked her for her patience.

Yes, I hope that every Tulane alum who is called for annual fund says no, not until things are put back the way they belong, and names the amount of money that they are withholding. They may be able to ignore this website, the Newcomb efforts, and attempt to placate us all with platitudes and evasion, but when it hits their pocketbooks, they're going to notice. I encourage *everyone* to respond with similar words when that donation call comes. And if you're students -- don't think you can't have an effect on this. They will call your parents -- yes indeed: while they're paying tuition, the development office will call wanting money. Tell them not a penny without Engineering, Newcomb and Tulane Colleges intact. They need to see that not only will this kind of "visionary" reinvention of the university not save them enough to matter, but it will cost them dearly.

What kills me the most about this is if the university had been upfront with students and alums about the situation, we *would* have responded generously to save the university and colleges that we love. But we were never given that opportunity. That in and of itself speaks volumes about the real motivations behind some of this renewal planning.

Has anyone spoken to Loyola students about how their university is handling the cost of repairs, etc.? I know Tulane's are much, much greater due to the significantly larger amount of physical property, the med school and research facilities, etc., but from an undergrad, uptown campus point of view, surely things are somewhat similar?
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wwalkeri



Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 136

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree lets not yell at all the phone callers. I am a waiter and thats like yelling at me when the kitchen screws up; however, at the same time the phone callers need to remember that they still represent Scott Cowen and Tulane; so unfortunately if people are pissed at tCowen and the administration the phone callers will certainly get an earful from those being asked for money. It sux for everyone involved. Furthermore, I think it is extremely disrespectful for Tulane to ask for money from people directly affected by this plan. At least give people time to digest the change and come to accept some form of it before holding your hand out.
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